Consolidated Airsoft Team

[ackme]

In the last few months we have had some big changes at AirsoftKorea. We have changed over the Ghosts site (http://ghosts.airsoftkorea.org/) to be a Korea wide site, airsoft has undergone a major shakeup (http://www.airsoftkorea.org/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=186) in Korea, and during our 2 month break we have lost, and gained, a lot of players.

New players that have joined have mostly been playing as 'ASK' members since there has been no real team structure. This makes things difficult to manage and organize and it has, in my opinion, been a little confusing. Especially last game where the team we were playing against considered us just 'ASK'. ASK isn't a team, it's a website.

I called a bunch of ASK members and got their opinions on what to do. There's a lot of different opinions and it's clearly time we bring everyone together and get things worked out.

I have been talking to Cpt. Mann (righteous) about starting a NEW team that consolidates all the independent players and teams (that want to join!) into one team. This team has a new name and a fresh start. Other teams can keep their names as squads but we would go by the one main team name. This way we can arrange games with Korean teams more often and have a bigger showing when we play together.

I'm not posting a lot of details here because I will post them as MY OPINION in a reply to this post. If you want your voice heard post here.

[ackme]

My New Team Wish List:

1. Multicam
2. Multicam, please
3. Keep Ghosts as a squad

My opinion: I just want to play airsoft, happily, no stress. I'm willing to manage and update the website but I have been spending a lot of time managing games and people etc. I would really like to join a team as a player for a while. Most of the Ghosts players wear multicam so I would request that it stays that, if not at the very least the Ghosts squad can wear that. I'm still willing to do admin and arrange games etc. but I really don't want to be a team leader.

@Sean: Capt. Mann has stepped up to lead the new team. He's the most experienced airsoft player currently at ASK and a serving captain in the US Army.

[krobinson103]

Don't want to have to buy a new bdu so.... If we are wearing multicam then I don't care what we call ourselves. As for a leader, been there done that and I'm far too busy to do it again. Choose someone else.

My opinion? Integrate everyone and if people want a different uniform I'll stay with the Ghost squad so I can wear my multicam.

[Righteous]

I am good with the MC uniforms. A blue and gold arm band like a tactical recognition flash may help with the team recognition regardless of uniform pattern. It could be an armband that can be used instead of putting yellow tape on your arm.

[krobinson103]

I agree there. Stay with MC for an 'official' uniform and use any spare uniforms for the opfor when we play on our own. This week if we play on our own I intend to bring my DPM New Zealand army uniform. Last game the faded multicam was to bright for the forest at this time of year. It will be great in fall and winter though. Almost everyone has the velcro shoulder patches so maybe both? Velcro and armbands? or make them all velcro and get some armbands with velcro for people with uniforms that don't have the shoulder patches.

[Canuckinrok]

I think it's time to start my own team.
My team name is 미. ( as in Me )
Basically I just think it's getting to be too much hassle with everyone wanting different teams and rules and blah blah blah......
I nominate 미 as the team leader and 미 as the rule maker for this team.

I have decided I am not going to play as a member of any other team besides the 미 team.

미 Team members ~ Me.

Freelance player.
Rogue.
Solo man.
Rebel.

I don't see the need to be part of a team anymore since it seems to be a flash point for too many egos and just adds stress to what was already a good thing and now just seems to distort the fun part from the game.

BTW ~ The 미 team will have an official kick off party this friday !! All members of the 미 team can attend!!!!

[ackme]

George has offered to help get things back together and lead a team. I think that's a great offer and sign me up, as a player. A lot of others that I called are interested in doing the same thing, hence this thread. As a strong team we can arrange games easier, play Korean teams easier, and have more fun.

No one has to join if they don't want to.

[Righteous]

The whole point of this exercise is to get more people to come to the games and to arrange for games with local (Korean) teams. We have achieved the second goal for the time being. Now we can work on the first. A common uniform is a nice touch, but not entirely necessary and we do not want to put off people who do not want to wear MC or just don't have it right now. This is the reason for the tactical recognition flash to be worn on the arms. We can move to fully MC later or arrange by squads (Blue and Gold as those are the team colors) later on with different squads using different uniforms and, hopefully, fulfilling different roles.

[GMN]

I throw my full support behind Righteous. He wants to lead and has the engery and time for it.

MC is cool with me.

Main thing is, I would like to be more organized as a team and see this as the good way to achieve that goal.

[seanenroute]

In general it's fine for our members to play with themselves. Taking a firm grip is not going to change the fact that as a group of foreigners we're all going to come and go as we need to. Which is fine for games when it's just us.

However, when we play with the Korean teams we have to present ourselves as a team. The other teams don't want to have to deal with several people when making arrangements with us. They want a single person who will speak for us and take care of all the necessary arrangements for meeting up. As such we have to at times act as a unified team with one leader who speaks for all of us.

I personally don't see the need to form a new team as we have everything already in place. We have a history as The Ghosts and are known amongst the other teams. But we do need someone to run and administer the team. So we need a team captain and I think George would be good in that position.

[Righteous]

I've already stepped up and arranged one Korean game while I was at Daegu. I also found another opportunity to play in July which provided the catalyst to return to playing after the Seoul Sniper School closed. There will be another AUSA GNP game in a month or two as well. Additionally, I worked out the details for the use of the Daniel School (Black Shadows) Field and am chasing down another lead for a field. I am also aware of one other field Black Shadow uses, but I do not like the location very much as it is right next to a major road. If anyone wants to see the concepts for the new team they are available as .png downloads from this link: http://www.airsoftkorea.org/album.php?albumid=27

[ackme]

ASK can't be an organization site for airsoft in Korea AND a representative entity for one group of players in one area in Korea. What's to say the Daegu guys can't be ASK, or the Jeju guys, or whoever.

If random people are going to be playing as some team/group/entity called ASK just because they made ID's on this site it's going to be messy. What if someone plays as ASK using unregulated equipment in an unsecured area? What if they piss some other teams off while playing as ASK? etc.

ASK is a website for coordinating and promoting airsoft for non-Koreans in Korea, not a playing entity. It can't be both ways, either one team/group/entity runs ASK, or everyone does.

Just felt the need to state that.

[nemesis]

well... I though the team name is "Ghost" and there are (or would be) squads with different names such as RECON and PINOY. And now I am really interested in 미 team with leopard CAMO. In my oppinion we just leave the team name as Ghost since most of the team members got same patch in their left arm. How about squads use their own patches on right arm so we distinguish squads.

About ranking... lets just make it. Anyway we don't use them propperly. It is just fun. Also, when we play with other teams, it would be COOL and good looking for them.

That's what I thought...

[Courtesy]

If random people are going to be playing as some team/group/entity called ASK just because they made ID's on this site it's going to be messy. What if someone plays as ASK using unregulated equipment in an unsecured area? What if they piss some other teams off while playing as ASK? etc.

ASK is a website for coordinating and promoting airsoft for non-Koreans in Korea, not a playing entity. It can't be both ways, either one team/group/entity runs ASK, or everyone does.

Just felt the need to state that.

This makes sense. If you want ASK to Korea what ASC has been for Canada, then yeah. I always thought that the current batch of people on ASK are still "The Ghosts".

What ASK really needs though is greater numbers from other teams. I guess one way would be to offer it as a free place for them to organize and chat with each other privately in a sub-forum. My only concern is that not enough people speak "the global language" of English to really make this a cohesive community. As Rob pointed out, non-Koreans will always be identified as such, unless we find some way to bridge the gap.

[Canuckinrok]

Seems that most replyied here are for keeping 'The Ghosts'.
Most don't seem to really approve a switch.

Also, the 미 team has had a FABULOUS promotion within its ranks!!.
I have been promoted to the level of 미 team 16-star General!!!
I am pretty proud of this as I have worked so hard to reach this level.
I thank all of the 미 team members for their support and assure them that I will do my best to enjoy and abuse the power bestowed upon me.
Thank you.





Now, get me some freakin coffee Private 미!!! :cool:

[BRANDON]

I speak for my guys when i say we dont care you just give us a team name and what color we should wear then tell us where to meet and we will be there to play

I think a team leader is a good idea as long as the man picked is up to the job which I think i am with Chris when he said CPT MANN would be a good nomination I am sure if he can lead troops he can lead an airsoft team

[Righteous]

The first paragraph of the concept document makes very clear that the rank structure does not provide authority to one player over another. It's just an incentive system and an outline for those who are interested in helping out with the administrative details. The review requirement is designed to encourage participation to make the site a better source of knowledge on airsoft equipment so people new to airsoft can get more information than the current "just show up and we'll show you" answers I've seen on the forums right now. There are nine reviews, five of which are mine. There's a lot more equipment in people's hands that newcomers would like to know about but no one has any incentive to look at his equipment objectively and post the details on why they think something is worth buying or if it's junk to be avoided. You don't have to go above and beyond like Black Fox did on his M240 review with lots of pictures and details on mounting it to a HMMWV (though I am not discouraging that). You just have to provide the pros and cons based upon your use of the equipment.
I don't speak Korean, but my girlfriend does so that's a moot point.

[Technomad]

@Chris, good luck trying to explain the concept of ASK as an umbrella organization to the Koreans. IMO as far as the Koreans are concerned they will always see foreigners as part of a team called ASK even if well all know that it isn't the case, especially true for those living in Seoul and its suburbs.

Just my two won (cents)....

[Righteous]

As stated previously the review stipulations are intended to increase participation in the forums. Someone new to airsoft may have no idea where to go to look for information. Additionally, new people can post to the forums and have the reviewer provide addtional information that they could not get from another site. They'll also have a chance to talk face-to-face with the reviewer which they can't do at other sites. Equipment encompasses, but is by no means limited to, replicas, bbs, web gear, vests, uniforms, pouched, slings, goggles, masks, boots and even socks if they are designed with special properties such as moisture wicking, goretex, etc. I believe this is more relevant than requiring each player to be able to tear apart a gearbox and rebuild a replica which is difficult even for experienced players. You'll notice that there are no officer ranks right now. The highest rank is a company grade NCO. There's a reason for that which is noted in the concept document. The rank pictures are taken from Battlefield 2142 which provided the inspiration for the rank "structure" in the concept document. Those who have played BF2142, or any BF series game, know what this means.

[Righteous]

The reviews are more necessary as they provide information to everyone who comes to the site. They also demonstrate participation in the site and a willingness to assist others. It should be left to each individual to decide how to maintain his replica and the ability to do what would be depot level maintenance in a military organization should in no way be a requirement for a rank structure that is based upon participation in the group and ASK as a whole.
The ranking system will start from ground zero for everyone.
Please use the personal pronouns "I" or "me" in your posts so I know who is awaiting what.
Incidently, I've been living up the the Kings Point (USMMA) motto of Acta non Verba.

[Righteous]

New is a relative term. I am not new to airsoft or Korea. My major issues with the Ghosts, the old site and the way things have been in the past are the fact that some of the things I've seen on the field like trying to surrender people from the front and at over 50 feet, sitting atop the medic and continuing to fire after being hit, hiding behind and moving around garbage bags and the like and holding up plastic or wooden boards for cover show a distinct lack of knowledge of what are basic airsoft rules in use in the other places I have played. So yes, I have been taking the initiative to provide clear rules and a code of conduct largely based upon information already on the site. Admittedly, I've seen little but arguments over the most basic things and I intend to fix that problem.

[ackme]

As to ranks: My opinion remains unchanged from day one. I don't care. When ranks were brought up for the Ghosts and some players wanted them I created the graphics and the forum code to support ranks etc. I even bought the rank pins with Rob, I still wear mine on my vest. But what I don't like is when people take them seriously, it's airsoft, a game, a fun game. If ranks get people motivated to do things, then great. But it's all in fun and sport.

I am fine with starting over in rank just because I don't hold any stock in ranks. It's also fun to work up ranks, as long as it stays fun. Call me a 16 star general or JM2 (Jizz Mopper 2nd class) just don't lord over me because your wearing a shinier piece of tin. We're all equal.

But when it boils down to it I just play for fun. Nothing is at stake, nor should be, except for fun.

[krobinson103]

Just my 10 won on ranks. Don't care what rank I have. If people want ranks then I will happily follow the system. I don't agree with any concept of seniority based on rank as it takes the focus away from the game. As for reviews being nessecary to advance in rank, I think participation in the forums (meaningful) is more important.

[Righteous]

The rules also laid out medic restrictions, respawn rules and prohibited using lightweight, easily moveable items for cover. The replica/fps rules were relatively small part based upon TASO rules updated for ASK and Korea. The lack of involvement or any attempt to fix these issues before I showed up led me to take the iniative to fix them. If that's what I have learned in my eight years in the military then fine. I'll solve problems where I see them. The medic and surrender rules were broken or just flatly ignored and that is simply unacceptable. There have been several opportunities to provide input and feedback and no one has taken them up. Hence, it appears as though I am forcing the issue on everyone else when the reality is there is a consensus that the rules I provided are useful and not in need of major revision. If you have or had an issue with the rules you have had over two months to bring it up in the forums but you have elected not to do so until now. Incidentaly, it's more of Republic because anyone on the site at the time I started the thread had an opportunity for input. In fact, they still do. You may remember the laser issue with "ninja" on the old site. The consensus became that there was no reason to allow lasers as they are a safety issue and they add nothing to the game. This was a discussion taken up on the forums with input from several members. This is what I had in mind when I started the Rules Staffing Sheet thread.

[krobinson103]

If nothing else they will make us look more 'professional'. I see no problems with rank insignia on the field. Emilio has his 'pork eating crusader' patch, its all just eye candy to me.

[Righteous]

Just my 10 won on ranks. Don't care what rank I have. If people want ranks then I will happily follow the system. I don't agree with any concept of seniority based on rank as it takes the focus away from the game. As for reviews being nessecary to advance in rank, I think participation in the forums (meaningful) is more important.
Part of the review requirement is to foster meaningful participation in the forums. Right now there just is not much to discuss in the forums and reviews of equipment would provide a spark to get people discussing things on the forums.

[Canuckinrok]

I am fine with starting over in rank just because I don't hold any stock in ranks. It's also fun to work up ranks, as long as it stays fun. Call me a 16 star general or JM2 (Jizz Mopper 2nd class) just don't lord over me because your wearing a shinier piece of tin. We're all equal.

But when it boils down to it I just play for fun. Nothing is at stake, nor should be, except for fun.

Sorry Chris,
That rank is only obtainable within the 미 team.
However, your suggestion of being a JM2 faces no objections from the 미 team and from now on the 미 team will respect your title and address you accordingly.
:D

[TAN]

In my country, most airsoft teams do not used ranking system in the team for two reasons:
1. out of respect to the real soldiers.
2. some players are not mature enough to realize that the higher rank does not give them any real authority over lower rank members.
This is only a game and everyone is playing for fun. Just because somebody is not good at war, it does not give anyone authority to scold at him or disrespect him.

Though, I really like the idea of getting people to know and actually using:
1. Radio protocol
2. Hand signal
3. etc. and etc.
in the field. I like role playing and stuff. Playing is also learning. And learning does not have to be a painful experience.

[nexus]

Totally agreed with Tan